163. What It Means To Be An Adversity Warrior with Robin Osborn

💭 Have you ever found yourself at the helm of a sinking ship, with the weight of the world on your shoulders? That's where Robin Osborn, our remarkable guest and adversity warrior from Kotari Leadership, found herself at just 21. In this heartfelt episode, Robin shares her extraordinary journey of transforming her family business after her father's suicide, nurturing a seasoned workforce through transparent communication and a deep understanding of their needs. Her story is a masterclass in resilience, offering invaluable lessons on leadership that resonates with anyone navigating the stormy waters of professional and personal life.

But Robin's insights don't stop at steering the ship through turbulence; they're about redesigning the vessel for a better voyage. She opens up about her life-altering brush with mortality and how it reshaped her priorities, fostering a life rich with self-love and gratitude. We discuss the pitfalls of the hustle culture and how to step out of the shadows of 'head trash' into the sunlight of proactivity and accountability. For leaders and individuals alike, this episode is a compass guiding you towards aligning your actions with your core values, conquering fears, and achieving true freedom and relief. Join us for an exploration of empowerment and the essential steps for navigating life's most challenging moments with grace and determination.

🌐 Connect with Robin:
• Website:
https://www.robinosborn.com/
https://headtrash.com/
https://www.kotharileadership.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinosborn/

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Chapters

• 0:02 Navigating Adversity
• 14:06 [Ad] Business & Society with Senthil Nathan
• 14:54 (Cont.) Navigating Adversity
• 15:48 Transforming Life Through Self-Reflection and Purpose
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• 24:53 (Cont.) Transforming Life Through Self-Reflection and Purpose
• 26:53 Empowering Leadership Through Accountability and Action

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:00

What would you do if you woke up one morning to news that turns your whole life upside down? Studies show that the majority of people that go through life changing trauma and adversity, come out the other end with a completely new perspective on life. They rethink what is most important to them, and start living a life that is more congruent with their values. In today's episode of the leadership project, we're sharing a conversation I had with Robin Osbourne, also known as the adversity warrior. Robin has been through family business and personal trauma that made her rethink her whole approach to life. She now specializes in helping others to bounce back from adversity and thrive. Robin shares her inspirational story and gives practical advice on how to bounce back and how to get unstuck. There are lessons and reflections in this for all of us, sit back and enjoy the show. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the leadership project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Robin Osborn. Robin is an executive coach with an organization called Kotari leadership. And she's been through a lot in her life. She's also sometimes coined the adversity warrior. And what we're going to talk about today is about adversity. She's been through a lot in her own life, and I'm not going to steal her thunder and and say what that is, I'm going to let her do that. She's been through a lot in our own life. But what she's been able to do is pick up the key lessons from her own adversity. And now coaches others on how they can manage their own adversity and trauma in their life. But also a really key point for all the leaders listening to the show right now. What to do when you have a team member who might be going through tough times and their own adversity. So really looking forward to the day's discussion. So Robin, I've set the scene, but I want you to fill the gaps. Tell us a little bit about your own journey and including starting off with your your own family business, from a very young age through to your adversity and what led you to be so focused on helping others deal with adversity today.

Robin Osborn: 2:19

Awesome, thank you so much for having me. And I truly am like, I'm a miracle. And I will get into that a little bit later. We're all adversity warriors, life gives us peaks in pre peaks. So instead of peaks and valleys. It's in the pre peaks, that we're always on the cusp of a breakthrough. And what I have learned in my lifetime growing up, great, really nice childhood. Beautiful. You know, we were the All American family. Unfortunately, my dad took his own life. When I was 21. We were all very traumatized, devastated, huge loss. But my mother gave us, my twin brother and my middle sister and I have the opportunity to take the company over. And so in one day, I had 40 employees alongside my two siblings. The great news for us is that we each took a separate seat. We intuitively knew, even though we were young, what our strengths were. And through that arduous journey is where I acquired a lot of leadership skills. For me, it took me about five years to earn the trust of the employees. And I would say we flew by the seat of our pants for a good 25 years being very successful. We're an FAA repair station, so we overhaul landing gears. We also for the last 30 years, have had a government contract where we over have overhauled every missile silo in the country. We do the launch components that throw the 110 trapdoor open, so very proud that we have carried on the legacy of the business. We've been in business 75 years.

Mick Spiers: 4:23

Yeah, I can imagine I just want to unpack that a little bit. And then we can go further into your story that the bit that you said, oh, yeah, 21 years old, you and your siblings, and you've got a workforce of 40. And I'm going to hazard a guess of workforce that we're probably quite experienced, probably long term is in the industry and in the company. And then all of a sudden, here's this 21 year old, who's the boss? And you said about five years to build their trust. Tell me what that look like.

Robin Osborn: 4:53

So building trust, first and foremost, I would say was really being open, honest and transparent. It seeking to understand where they were because they had a lot more experience. But at the same time, really following through on conversations and changes being open for insights, I knew every employee's name, who their children were, I really took the time to get to know them. I was always in the one to one meetings, asking them, What could we do better. And so I found in communication, some of the conversations would be 25 years later, when we really got stuck, what I call falling on the sword is, hey, I may have not have been showing up as the best leader. But Today's a new day, and I want to tell you that we're here to really scale and grow the company. And we're in a leadership development program. So for me, I didn't have any tools about 25 years in, we did pretty good in the sense, you know, we're a mom and pop shop. But I really needed to, in order to take the company to the next level, I needed help. So I would say first thing in in resilience and adversity, is asking for help is not being alone in it. And the the stock part is this, there's three different ways a company, we'll get stuck, it's organizationally, departmentally, or individually. So we may as a company be living in, you know, 1990, with the way that we're doing things, or we're not creating a compelling vision, and really sharing that and getting people to get in the boat. So we can all rowing in the same direction. We may have departments that are just doing extremely well, and other departments that don't have the right people in the right seeds. And they're failing. So then it's dragging the company down. As far as an individual, if we're not in the right seat, or we're having personal issues, there's probably 136 different ones. Is that really being present. And so that's what I have really became very passionate about, is helping people and companies get unstuck. There's

Mick Spiers: 7:37

three things I'm hearing there, Robin, quite interesting. Firstly, and a lesson for everyone listening to this show, there's going to be times in your career you where you may land, in a business and industry or a company where you're not the most experienced person in the room at all. So you could have industry veterans working in your company, and listen to what Robin did. I'm sure she didn't get it right every day. But she took the time to get to know the team and respect them for their experience and to listen to them. What would you like to see happen at our company? That's a really powerful question. The second one was that organizations do get stuck, and they can get stuck in all kinds of ways. And are you using yesterday's thinking to try to solve tomorrow's problem. And if you just keep on doing what you're doing now, it's not going to change, you need to realize that sometimes something's got to give. And the third part of something's got to give that I heard the Robin is not being afraid to say that you need help, and sticking out your hand and bringing in external advice, external counsel, or coaches, whatever the case may be, to help you get unstuck, right. So now, there's already some interesting lessons out of all of that, which is kind of setting the scene. Let's go back into your own personal story, because I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your father at such a young age, that must have been very troubling for you and your siblings, certainly at that time. But that's not the end of the road for you. You've still got further adversity in your life. For us more about that. After

Robin Osborn: 9:11

over taking the business so young, we for 33 years, I was at the helm of the business, I would say 25 years and I realized I didn't have the tools to take it to the next level. I read a book called Traction by Gino Wickman, based on creating an Entrepreneurial Operating System in your business. So I became certified through that discovery of the book. And I went, flew to Michigan, came back implemented it in the company and we doubled our revenue in 18 months, which was incredible. So once we had that type of next level success, I realized I wasn't in my My God given gift, I had a huge passion to go out and help people to create custom operating systems in their business. So I've been doing that for nine years. And honestly, I really thought I had a free pass in life because I had, you know, overcome this huge challenge. So we're in COVID. And I thought I was in depression, and very low energy. Just everyone was struggling, let's face it. But for me, it became not instantly apparent. But the bottom line is this, I went to emergency three times, they kept telling me I was fine. The third time I said to the doctor, look, I'm a very strong woman, there's something seriously wrong with me and scan my head. So they found a baseball size, benign brain tumor in my brain. And they said, it will take your life in the next couple of days, we need to go in for mergency surgery. And so what a shock to myself, my husband, my boys, my have a really tight family, a lot of close friends. So within two days, I literally said goodbye to everybody, because they weren't sure if I was going to make it or if I'd ever speak again. So for me, the miracle of the story is five hour surgery, I woke up speaking. And I have completely changed or had a new knowing inner knowing, with my perspective in life. And so for me, being given the gift of life for the second time around is just been an incredible journey in you know, it took me a year to walk one mile. And I never said Why me. Because every day that I woke up, I was grateful to be here. grateful that I, they told me 100% recovery. So that gave me a lot to fight for. But the tools that I use in businesses are the same tools I used in my recovery. To give me that tenacity, the purpose, that fight to get up every day.

Mick Spiers: 12:30

Thanks for sharing so openly with us, Robin, I was so glad that you with us, right? Literally with us. Yeah, I'm so glad that you're literally with us and you got through it, and that you're able to share your story with others. The first thing I picked up there was interesting. And it's something for us all to think about individually. And also in our leadership of our teams. And that's I'm going to call it noticing and naming changes to baseline behavior. Alright, so you knew in yourself something was not right. And doctors that didn't know you. Were giving you Yeah, you're robbing you're just a bit unwell right now off you go kind of thing, but you knew and yourself something was not right. I'm gonna say that you can also do that if you know your team. Well, you can pick up changes to baseline behavior that might show that there's something underlying going on and to share a separate story and come back to yours in a second. I've seen that firsthand where I had two colleagues and one colleague had noticed in the other colleague that his cognitive processing because he had known him for 20 years, he had noticed a noticeable change in the way that he was speaking the way that he was thinking the way that he was approaching his work. And he was the one that pushed him to the doctor. And similar story brain tumor, right. But he'd noticed that the change in baseline behavior, so pay attention to that thing I want to unpack now Robin is perspective attitude. I'm gonna say gratitude. So how did it change the way you looked at the world after this event?

Robin Osborn: 14:46

Well, it's interesting because I really have a lot of compassion and understanding of a lot of executives in the you know, you're in the grind your your burnout, you're on an empty tank, the businesses, a lot of times the first priority. Family, you're coming home with what I call an empty tank. So for me, life was waking up prior to the surgery and what I have to do, I was not in gratitude. I was grinding. I was stressed. It wasn't fun. I wasn't enjoy. And after I had the surgery, I realized it almost was instantaneously my life simplified in the sense that I really valued for some For most, my health, and so nothing's from here on out ever gonna get in the way of me taking really good care of myself because I realized how vulnerable we all are. And I, I almost had a attitude of, well, I'm invincible. And that's never gonna happen to me, meaning I wasn't getting my workouts and, you know, eating excessively eating or having, you know, frequently having wine, that sort of thing. I think that it happened to a lot of people in COVID. But when you look death in the eye, and understanding how truly vulnerable we are, it really changes the way that everyday life, I put myself first, I would say I learned self love through the process for the first time in my life. And what a beautiful experience because I'm a high achiever. And it's, a lot of times in the past wasn't either good enough. Or I was super self critical or hard on myself. And what I find with you know, entrepreneurs, is that their challenge, obsessed. And then when they do have successful the company and sell one, then it's what's the next thing? What's the next thing? But are they truly pausing to be present? Show up. And this is for women as well? Are you really pausing in seeing the blessings and taking a moment to have the conversations with your significant other with your children, because we're so busy being busy, there's

Mick Spiers: 17:27

a lot there to unpack, Robin, and I'm gonna share with you what I'm taking away from it. The first thing is the powerful reframing. So what I heard there before the instant, I'm going to say that you were working out what do I have to do today. So you kind of grinding, almost get this vibe that you are going to work going, Okay, I've got to get through this today. Through to a reframing of being present, being in the moment, and being grateful for what you've got. And the thing that's playing around in my head is this is to not wait until you're faced with your own mortality until you do what you did, which is prioritize based on your values. Prioritize your time based on your values, and be present and grateful for what you've got and a saying I want to throw at you and see what you think about this. We always talk about, you know, ask people questions. If you had a time machine, you could go back in time, what would you change? And people are always looking to change something in their past that will improve their today? What if we reframe that and said, Well, what would you change today to improve your future? Love it, hence your your gym session, being present in the moment, enjoying every moment of life, instead of waiting? For the time machine to be invented? The Time Machine has been invented. And that's that's called being present in the moment right now and living your values so that your future self will thank you. How does that sit with you?

Robin Osborn: 18:59

I do a lot of work in this area for clients. And what I would say is really becoming aware of the head trash is what I call it, I love that term, I actually own the domain head trash.com. But what I do with clients is really work in we're in our past story, or what I call the old story. It's a stuck. And I'm not minimizing anyone's trauma or, or for whatever reason why they're hanging out there. But the true true goal is to get into the present. And then to be looking forward. And looking forward to what I call reaching the summit or what is the Big Hairy Audacious Goal, really creating that powerful vision with that foundation of the values underneath you. But what I find with when I do one on one work with executives is what I call the inner roommate. The inner roommate is the negative self talk. That's the head trash. So we've got to get clear and not go back and in swimmin whatever that story is, but make a new story. Create a new chapter. Yeah,

Mick Spiers: 20:24

I love it. It's so powerful. The stories that we tell ourselves in the head and we all know we've all got an inner voice inner dialogue. You're not crazy. Everyone has that. Right? So if you're listening to this right now and go Yeah, I do that to myself everyday. You're not crazy everyone does it. You Do you have that inner voice but you also have the pen, you're the one with the pen, you can write rewrite the story, you can decide what kind of story it looks like. And you can decide whether it's a story based on regret, or you can, whether it's a story based on living in the moment and looking future. And if I unpack that a little bit more, I will say, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, Robert, that no amount of regret changes the past. But no amount of anxiety changes the future. The The only thing is right now and being in the moment right now so that you have a better future. How does that one sit with you?

Robin Osborn: 21:15

My Truth is fear is misdirected faith. So hanging out worrying, like I say pray and don't worry or worrying, don't pray. That's just my own personal beliefs. But as far as regret, the other thing I would say is coming out of surgery, I don't know why. But the feeling of I will not say I'm sorry for anything in the sense of not not if I hurt someone's feelings or something like that. But what I recognized is I carried a lot of guilt and shame in my past thinking. And so it's just, to me wasted energy to be carrying that type of emotion around. And so really being authentic. And knowing one of my values is always do your best. And so when we let go and release, because some of us are weighing ourselves down with stuff that like my number one question is, what do you have control of? Because sometimes we're in circumstances where we don't have control. And yet we're taking on the responsibility, or that type of difficult energy. And so for me, what I recognized is I'm not going to take responsibility for things that are not mine. And I did it a lot in my journey. And I'll tell you a personal just little snippet when my dad died for whatever reason, I decided at 21. My mother was my response to ability financially, like I was going to be a success running the company, no matter what. So when my mother passed away, in 2018, I realized, wow, why did I take that on, that really wasn't my responsibility. At the same token, it felt like my purpose. And so when she passed, I felt like I didn't have a purpose any longer. And so, really, through the having the gift of the brain tumor, gave me a real vigor and purpose in life. And it's really all in gratitude, in exuding joy every day, and helping people become better.

Mick Spiers: 24:35

To this three things I'm picking up there, Robin, so the first thing is that theme of self compassion that you touched on earlier. The second thing is about focusing on what is in your control versus what's out of your control. And then the third is the power of purpose and gratitude, for being able to channel your energies now, towards helping others and there are a lot of people out there that are struggling with with a very adversities that you've been through before. So tell us more about what that looks like for you. How do you help others that might be sitting in your shoes five years ago, or even a 21 year old self that's dealing with the trauma of of losing your father? How do you now help others with that, from

Robin Osborn: 25:19

the business side, is really creating a framework, some of the emotional stuff is separate. That's one on one coaching, that's where we really need to get a pulse of what is the inner conversation going on? What are the assumptions, interpretations and limited beliefs? So I call that separating the truth and the lies. So how true is that? So getting them to see their even their own self and their own perspectives through a new new lens. But creating hope in the business is very much similar to creating hope in your individual life is first and foremost, we got to start with values. What are the values? What is the small set of guiding principles that you're going to make decisions on? What I find in organizations that get stuck is they're not making decisions. So to Maybe that's weak leadership, you can fail, dust yourself off and get back up. Communication is a big part of this process, I had to tell the emergency room doctors, they were missing something. A lot of times in companies you're not heard the first time, you need to repeat yourself often. So sometimes they need to hear it seven times before you're actually going to get heard. And as far as on the personal journey, it really breaks down to the, you know, saying tools like with my recovery process, I didn't want to go to physical therapy. But I knew not to sit in being a victim, I knew that I had to get up, do it anyway, and align to my values, which are be impeccable with your word, one month shy of two years, and I've worked intensely five days a week, for the last 23 months, and I get to now have a very normal life. Lucky for me that I was, you know, had a wonderful surgeon and team. But what I really want to unpack with clients is what is in the way, and let's get to the root of it. Sometimes there's blind spots. So having an outside coach consultant come in, that's truly been in the trenches, and understands how not only difficult this is, but also just basic foundational tools to help them uncover it and discover what the blind spots are those

Mick Spiers: 28:05

three themes I'm picking up there, Robin, and they've got a constant thread through them that that I'd like to unpack a little bit more. So the first one, when you're talking about a business that stuck can often be through in decisiveness. And the here's the start of the theme. So what's holding them back? What is it that's holding them back from making those decisions? The second one was the mindset and moving from a victim mindset of woe is me to a create a mindset of what can I do with where I am with what I've got? What can I do that can best serve me right now. And the third part is that outside lens, empowering someone to help you see what everyone else sees, but you're not seeing, and once again, getting them to help us understand what's holding you back. So the constant theme, you mentioned the word fear before. And fear kills more dreams than failure ever did. And it's very debilitating. So if you get into this situation, whether it's in decisiveness in the business, inaction in my personal life, or just the woe is me, victim mindset, it's fear that's holding us back. And if we don't address the limiting belief that sitting in our brain and bringing it out, bring that limiting belief out and have a good damn chat about it. So what is holding you back? What's the real challenge here? You're not gonna progress. How does that sit with you?

Robin Osborn: 29:28

Yeah, I'm what I am really, I would say have become passionate is listening to the words they're using. So a little quick note for all the listeners, is when the teams or you personally, are using always or never, sort of probably kind of, I'm trying? I think so. Any all of that, and then there's no action in there. They don't have the clarity that they need to

Mick Spiers: 30:05

how do we reframe that? So if you find yourself in that trap yourself or your team are in that trap? How do we get them to reframe and reset? So

Robin Osborn: 30:13

what's the next step? How do we put it into action? So again, driving accountability, and not just accountability and saying, I'll get it done, but who's doing it? What are they doing? When is it getting done? And it same with the personal so whatever the goal is, in the personal life is taking action and then being accountable for that. Here's what I say. It takes so much more energy to avoid the actual reality and the truth of like, we're all in resistance of walking through and actually getting through the hard stuff. It takes a lot less energy, just to walk through it face it. The fear part is we're doing 10 Acts, the energy to try to avoid it than just walking through it. And to me walking through it and addressing it is the freedom and relief.

Mick Spiers: 31:17

Oh, that's so true. Right there. There's time that we spent avoiding that thing that we've been avoiding. There's a lot of energy expended in that avoidance that you could have done it by now, if you had a standard, you could have done it by now. Yeah, that's really interesting. So I'm hearing a bit of a coaching thread, like, I want to put some dots together here, and not everyone that listens to this show, or is a coach, some are, but you can. So the coaches that are listening to the show, you'll hear a common thread here. For those that are just leaders and helping others just listen to the the approach you were trying to get to the problem of, what would you like to have happen? What would you like to have happen? And then, so why haven't you done it yet? What's the challenge? What's the real challenge here? What's holding you back? And what are you going to do about it? And the What are you going to do about it? Is that what's that one first step that you could do today? That get you along the process of where you want to actually get to? And then how are you got to hold yourself accountable to that. So you've told me that this is what you want? You've told me that this is the challenge. You told me that this is what you're going to do about it? How are you going to hold yourself accountable to it. And really, I mean, there's, there's more to it than that. But that is the thread of what coaching looks like. And you can do that, as a leader. I encourage all leaders, by the way to go through coaching, education and certification and qualification. But even if you don't do that step, that's what you're trying to help your people with. Trying to help them understand what they want to do, what's holding them back what action they can take, here, the word action, it's not just a discussion, and then how they're going to keep themselves accountable to that. How does that sit with you in terms of a thread?

Robin Osborn: 32:56

Exactly, you're amazing at really pulling the bullet points. And also what I wanted to share is that communication is pivotal in follow through. So the other side of besides taking the the goals and the vision down to the ground, is I believe most companies are lacking, and walking through the resistance with difficult conversations. And so what I would encourage, if you're not already using values is to create the values, make sure they're really a fit for the long term greater good of the company, and that you hire, fire, review, reward and recognize in the values because the it's no longer personal. It's all based on the values. So with someone who isn't performing well, then let them know what they're doing. Well, let him in on where they're below the bar. That sort of conversation really closes gaps. And again, it's really about sitting down and having an open, honest conversation. Yeah,

Mick Spiers: 34:17

love it, Robin, and people do avoid those challenging conversations, there's, there's no doubt about it, that's probably one of the biggest things that holds a lot of leaders back. I like what you said about tying it to values. So that kind of makes it very clear about the behaviors, because the values and behaviors go hand in hand, I'm just going to add one and say maybe impact is well is also something that's missing, when their behaviors are not in line with their values, they don't always see the impact they're having on others around them. So if you can talk to them about values, and if you can talk about impact, you can make that conversation really worthwhile, but also much easier to get ready for because it's not a personal attack, it's nothing about that. It's to get them to see because they don't always see it themselves. Get them to see when their behaviors are not congruent with the values of the team, and the impact it's having on the people around them. Well,

Robin Osborn: 35:12

I missed one key component. And that is the leadership team needs to start with themselves. Through my own journey, what I recognized is I wasn't leading by example, looking in the mirror, I realize I'm not actually in alignment with my own company values. So the bottlenecks at the top of the bottle. We got to start with us and face the truth, the brutal facts and starting to step in into it as a leader and start with yourself first. And don't necessarily point the finger first until you've had that truthful conversation in the mirror with yourself.

Mick Spiers: 35:58

Yeah, well done. I love this. The bottleneck is at the top of the bottle. It's so true. We don't necessarily think about that. And then yeah, if you if you want to build a great culture, it definitely starts with role modeling those behaviors yourself. Yeah. All right, wonderful, Robin. I've really enjoyed today's conversation. I'd like to now take us to our Rapid Round. These are the same four questions that we ask all of our So, the first one is, what's the one thing you know, now that you wish you knew, and I'm going to slightly tweak it for you. It's normally what's the one thing you know, now that you wish you knew when you were 20? For me, it's going to be what's the one thing you know, now that you wish you knew when you were 21? Because of what happened to you in 21?

Robin Osborn: 36:35

Awesome. I love that. Love yourself. Self love, be president of your own fan club.

Mick Spiers: 36:42

Very good. I love it. What's your favorite book,

Robin Osborn: 36:44

favorite book, currently, I actually I'm just gonna say Tuesdays with maurey is one of my favorite books, I'm gonna step outside of the business realm. And because it really aligns with the journey that I've been on, and I it's by Mitch album, and there's a great life story there when things are going so fast. And a professor is talking to a past student and realize he's at the end of his life. And they're reflecting back. And it's really eye opening for the student. That's now a man that has a family. And so that's my favorite book. Yeah,

Mick Spiers: 37:28

very nice. What's your favorite quote?

Robin Osborn: 37:30

Favorite quote? You can't change what you tolerate. Yes, very

Mick Spiers: 37:36

good. Because tolerance is the same as acceptance and, or in some cases, even endorsement. So yeah, very good. Okay. And finally, Robin, there's going to be people listening to the show that are quite interested in what you've had to share today. How do they get in contact with you to find out more about you and the services you provide? So

Robin Osborn: 37:53

they can go to my website, Robin osbourne.com. i They can also get to me from head trash.com. And I would love to offer a 30 minute complimentary discovery. And they can go on the website and get my information and just send me an email. And I'd be more than happy to do that. I also have a calendar link. It's just schedule 30 minutes.com. If that's easier, they can just go to the link and scheduled 30 minutes. All right,

Mick Spiers: 38:25

brilliant, Robert, and we will put those links in the show notes as well so people can find it. Thank you very much for sharing yourself with us today's sharing your journey, sharing the life lessons that you've learned, but also how you're helping others to also deal with inaction deal with in decisiveness, deal with things in their lives that they can leave in the present and look forward and deal with adversity. Thank you so much.

Robin Osborn: 38:50

Thank you, Mack.

Mick Spiers: 38:52

You've been listening to the leadership project. In the next episode, we are joined by the remarkable Dr. Randy Ross. Randy is a renowned keynote speaker, author of three books, and the CEO and founder of remarkable in this inspiring interview, Randy shares with us what it takes to create a remarkable culture. We look forward to bringing this wonderful discussion to you in just a few days time. In the meantime, please do take care, look out for each other. And join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together. Thank you for listening to the leadership project that mix beers.com A huge call out to Ferris a deck for his video editing of all of our video content. And to all of the team at TLP. Joanne goes on Gerald Karlovo and my amazing wife say spears, I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to the Leadership Project YouTube channel where we bring you interesting videos each and every week. And you can follow us on social particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Now in the meantime, please do take care. Look out for each other and join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together