162. Communicating during Great Change with Adam Bennett

💭 How do you adapt and respond to a world where change is constant?

Adam Bennett is the principal of Great Change Consulting and the visionary behind the book "Great Change." In this episode, Adam and Mick Spiers dissect the seemingly intimidating territory of change management, the reasons behind the anxiety it induces and the keys to mastering transformation. The essence of success amidst constant change lies in leveraging on your unique strengths and delivering customer value.

Download this episode to discover how to be the disruptor rather than the disrupted and communicate your strategies with clarity across all levels of the organisation.

Time Codes:
0:00 Introduction
2:19 Adapting to Change and Transformation
15:47 Navigating Change Through Transformation
23:55 Implementing Corporate Transformation Strategies
39:01 Navigating Organizational Change and Innovation
44:47 Mastering Change and Driving Success

🌐 Connect with Adam:
• Website: https://greatchangeconsulting.com.au/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-bennett-72391522/

📚 You can purchase Adam's book at Amazon:
• Great Change: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394203721/

Book Mentioned:
• Die With Zero book by Bill Perkins

C-Suite Strategies
Welcome to C-Suite Strategies, the podcast where we discuss the art of scaling businesses.

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Chapters

• 0:01 The Era of Disruption and Change
• 10:51 The Future of Innovation and Transformation
• 11:35 [Ad] C-Suite Strategies
• 12:23 (Cont.) The Future of Innovation and Transformation
• 20:43 Corporate Ikigai and Strategy Implementation Challenges
• 27:14 Challenges of Change and Resistance
• 38:12 Mastering Change and Leadership Insights
• 44:01 Leadership Project

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

What do blockbuster Kodak and blackberry have in common? How about Amazon, Apple, and Google, The world is now changing faster than ever before. We're in the era of disrupt, or be disrupted. Organizations that adapt to change are the ones that thrive and have longevity. In today's episode, I'm sharing a conversation I recently had, with Adam Bennett, the author of the groundbreaking book, great change, we discuss why adapting to change is critical. Why change is so difficult. And Adam shares his wisdom on how to master change. You do not want to miss this one, sit back and enjoy the show. Hey, everyone, welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Adam Bennett. Adam is the principle of great change consulting, that's probably your first hint about what we're going to be talking about today. He's also the author of a book called Great Change. And for those that are watching on the video, you just show me stick that up. And it's the way to get big strategy done. And he really unpacks all the things about transformation, what it is, why it's difficult, and how you might go about implementing it. So I'm really looking forward to today's discussion is a conversation and a topic that a lot of people do get concerned about, they find it difficult, they don't know what to do. In fact, they quite often fear. So I'm really looking forward to this and see what nuggets of gold that we can get. So Adam, without any further ado, I'd love to hear a little bit about your background. And what led you to be so obsessed with change to the point where you're now the principal of great change consulting.

Adam Bennett: 1:48

Yeah, thanks, Mick. And thanks for having me on your podcast. And really my interest in passion for change. And transformation has been there as long as I can remember in, in fact, when I was a little boy, I was always interested in history. And I was one of those kids that would be sat at the table with everyone talking, reading an encyclopedia or a history book, and just was always fascinated by people who had led organizations or countries and had to adapt and respond to their changing world. And that was really a passion I've ever lost. And when I was at university, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I was doing a Bachelor of Business at University of Technology in Sydney. And I heard that there was such thing as management consultants who went in and helped companies adapt and change and adapt to what's going on in the world. So that sounded pretty good. So when I found out about that, I was pretty determined then to find my way into a consulting firm, which I subsequently did. And I haven't really looked back in terms of just that ongoing fascination with transformation.

Mick Spiers: 2:50

To tell us more about this, I'm going to call it borderline obsession with history. So what do you learn from historical change, that still applies to change today.

Adam Bennett: 3:02

But I think there's an element that obviously, we all live in a very fast paced modern society with many, many things playing out whether that's artificial intelligence, or climate change, and geopolitics and big macro forces. And it's very tempting to think that previous generations haven't had to grapple with things that are as big. And I think if you read history, you realize that's just not the case that technology has always been changing. And people have always been grappling with what is coming down the path and how to then adjust their organizations or societies to deal with that. So that's really, I guess, how I frame my love of history is, you know, a lot of the things and a lot of the strategies, and a lot of the forces that are at play, there might be specifics around things like cloud computing, or AI that are certainly different. But the concept of technology change is really quite universal, and has been the case through history. If you think about the Industrial Revolution, yeah, there was a period of massive change. And that started really, during the 1800s and has gone through for the last 200. So people have had to adapt.

Mick Spiers: 4:08

Yeah, so tell me about this word, adapt, because there's one thing that certainly is that change is constant, it's always there. What do you mean by the word adapt?

Adam Bennett: 4:18

Well, I think I'd use adapt in the, I guess the manner in which probably, most of your listeners would think but as well, which is a little bit like Darwinism, really, in terms of, you know, the evolution of species and organisms changing and responding to the forces around them in the natural environment. And that's what's given rise to so many different species. I think that's the same around organizations as well that organizations don't operate in a vacuum. And, you know, the external world has a very big impact on every organization. And those that can sense what's going on in the world can then develop some kind of corporate strategy and make choices and develop capabilities. And then thirdly, can then impact come in and get things done to change themselves. And they're the three things I would say, present for any transformation. They're the organizations that survive and thrive into the future. And it's probably somewhat cliche, but your organization's typically don't last that long. If you look at the standard pause in the US, for example, I think there's only one company that still on and which was there at the start, you know, 100 years ago, something like that. And, you know, if you looked at the ASX top 100, I think that would chop and change very rapidly.

Mick Spiers: 5:30

See, you've used this word forces, and you've spoken about the world changing around us, which is where I was going with this question is, are we changing? Or are we adapting? And what I'm getting here? Is the difference between are we disrupting or are we disrupted? And what I'm hearing from you is that there's a certain element of companies that are able to sense what is going on around them better than others, and to be able to act in a timely and almost flexible way to be able to go, okay, the wind is blowing this way, I'm going to adjust my sails. And I'm going to make the most of that wind, as opposed to almost not knowing what's going around you. And before you know it, you've blown off course, how does that metaphor sit with you?

Adam Bennett: 6:13

You know, very well, Mick, I mean, in terms of all organizations, whether they're businesses or governments, or sporting organizations, or religions, or any any kind of human endeavor, I think, has to be sensitive to the environment in which they're operating and their people are living. And that does, I think, give rise to forces. And that's changing customer expectations, or changing societal mores and values over decades, etc. And I come back to that point I made that no organization, regardless of what it is, sits in a vacuum, or are faced with what is going on in the world. And I think if people are not sensitive to what's going on in the world, it's almost inevitable that the world will keep moving. And increasingly now that world is accelerating, and the degree of change, it seeks accelerating, and the organization quite simply will get left behind and will struggle for relevance. And I think we've seen that in high profile organizations that are always you know, the cases rolled out when people talk about corporate failures, or corporates that got left behind whether that's, you know, Kodak, or blockbuster, etc. And those are good examples of organizations that failed to adapt. And what I find fascinating is that those companies were filled with very smart people, you know, they were filled with very motivated earnest, conscientious people, for whatever reason, that's unique to them were unable to sense what was going on. Or if they were able to sense what was going on, were unable to craft a cogent strategy. Or if they were able to sense what's going on, develop a really good strategy, for some reason, they were unable to execute it, they were unable to implement it. And as a result, they don't exist.

Mick Spiers: 7:58

One of the famous stories there is about blockbuster. And you know, whether it's true or not the fact that what is now Netflix was pitched to them as a business idea. And they didn't see it. They didn't see it, they were too happy with where they were and And now where are they? Yeah, interesting. What I'm trying to unpack there a little bit more is disrupt or be, you know, the woods, you know, you've got to disrupt or be disrupted. What I'm wondering, though, is, are the disruptors, the ones that really make it in the world? Or is it the fast followers. So I'm going to take Uber as an example here, where we'll talk about digital disruption. And you would say, Uber, you would say Airbnb, maybe they're a different case. But let's go with Uber for a moment, you'd say Uber saw a need in the world, because people were wanting new ways of moving around the cities, they were getting frustrated, there's more and more congestion, they wanted a new service. So they saw a gap in the market, and they went for it. And they did disrupt, let's say, what is now called the ride hailing service in the world, they've never turned a profit, they've never turned a profit, but someone's going to come behind them. And they are going to springboard off that, and they're going to make something of the world. So is it the disrupt ORs? Or is it the fast followers that are able

Adam Bennett: 9:13

Yeah, look, That's a really good question. I think my answer may be disappointing, because I think it depends. And it reminds me of that old adage, you know, the early bird gets the worm, but second mouse gets the cheese. So he I think corporate life is there is no kind of universal truth in terms of whether your first second or whatever. And I think what's interesting in the example that you mentioned is Uber as you literally come out of left field and really disrupted the taxi industry, not just in the US, but globally. And I think that's given rise to a massive disruption to taxi drivers and taxi plate owners who maybe saw that as their superannuation and have been really negatively impacted by the influence of someone like him, but so I think there's obviously empirical evidence that it's been disruptive. The other thing I would say is It's actually too early to tell what the long term outlook for someone like Uber looks like. Because of course, technology will continue to change. So with things like AI and full self driving, will we have a fleet of self driving Tesla's in a couple of years, which disrupts Uber. And you can imagine the forces of fractional ownership of motor vehicles of, you know, technologies like self driving and things like that really having an impact on not just Uber, but on all of the automotive companies in terms of the volume of cars they sell, and then the flow on effects to insurance companies and, you know, credit companies and mechanics and service data. I mean, it's it's huge. So I think with Uber, the example you gave us a good one, but it's too early to tell in terms of the to capitaliz? timeframes in which we tend to look at these things.

Mick Spiers: 10:50

The interesting thing there, I think, is the concept of emergent property. So yeah, Uber has shown us a new way to use your word the word way, they've shown us a new way, but then someone else is going to look at it and go, Oh, well, if you can do that, that means you can do this. And it's those Springboard elements that end up with quite a transformation in the world, right? So we started off as a good idea turned into a great idea turned into a disruptive idea. And before you know it, you're like you said it could be driverless shuttles in the future, and platooning vehicles going down the road that never have accidents, because they're all digitally connected to each other. And like the emerging properties, or the emergent properties are what really then takes off into the future. How does that sit with you?

Adam Bennett: 12:14

Yeah, it does. And it reminds me of one of my favorite books, which is the innovators dilemma by Clay Christensen from Harvard Business School, and he described why many organizations, especially large organizations find Innovation and Transformation difficult. And he described two different types, which kind of sits with what you just said. One is what he called sustaining innovations, which is innovations within an industry that are making the existing suite of products and services a little bit better. And a good way to describe that could be a credit card with a bank, for example, you know, basic credit cards, then the banks thought, actually, oh, we'll add loyalty points, or we'll add, you know, airline points or, you know, give you longer to repay the debt along an interest free, period, etc, etc. So that was small, incremental changes to their basic product, which are very kind of sustaining innovations. And large organizations are typically quite good at those. He also describes what he saw as being disruptive innovations where something happens, that completely changes the game. It's so to speak in that industry. And if you continue with banking, for example, the banks didn't invent Apple Pay, the banks didn't invent afterpay. So you see someone from external coming in and doing what is a disruptive innovation, and literally trying to cut their lunch and Clay Christensen talk very clearly about this in terms of earthmoving equipment, steelmaking, IT companies. So he saw this pattern repeated again and again, over 100 years, where the or the incumbent, large incumbent organizations in an industry one that disruption happened, yeah, not all of them make it through.

Mick Spiers: 13:53

All right, very good. So this is going to set the scene beautifully, I think. So one more thing on that change, and then we'll move towards the transformation. So you've also covered this in your book, the famous saying that the world is now changing faster than it ever has before. But the scary part is, it's now changing slower than it ever will again, and you've used the words that were not at the change peak yet. What do you mean by the change peak?

Adam Bennett: 14:16

Look, I coined that in terms of I don't think we've reached peak change, because obviously, we've all at a certain age seen a lot of change over the last couple of years, over the last couple of decades. And I think there is more coming because it continues to grow. And it's growing exponentially. And things like AI and climate change will start to introduce very strong forces that press the companies to change. And so I really do think there's more change ahead of us. And it's just the law of things changing. And if you think of anything like say, artificial intelligence, or take electric cars Tesla's and things like that, if you take a historical view, it makes you realize that the electric cars we have now are the worst they will ever be, you know, the internal combustion engine cars, we have now, probably the best will ever have. If you take artificial intelligence, it's actually now is the dumbest it will ever be. It's only gonna get smarter and more powerful. And so that's, I guess, the forces that I think historically that come through where things are always changing. We know that and those forces act in different ways.

Mick Spiers: 15:22

Yeah, it's a very scary curve to think about in terms of that, that some of the technology that we've had in place for 50, 60, 70 years is probably has been optimized to the point of diminishing returns, but it's the new emerging technologies that are still on that rapid acceleration and you and I would not be able to forecast where they're going to be 20 years from now.

Adam Bennett: 15:45

No, and that holds true for. And I just, you know, I'm not sure if you've heard the term Peak Oil where there was a peak would once where you would was the sole energy source for human beings, and then it wasn't and then it was, you know, call, and there was a peak call where, you know, that was really at the zenith of its usage for fuel on the planet oil will be the same, you know, the curve will come off. And then there'll be things like solar and renewables, and you know, it's completely different curves. So all of these forces play out.

Mick Spiers: 16:17

Yeah, really interesting. So worlds changing at an unprecedented pace. And it's the companies that are able to sense the world around them, and adapt and change are the ones that will survive and thrive, and the ones that don't will be dinosaurs, and will be long forgotten. That's very clear. So let's move on to this word transformation. And you hinted towards this before, Adam, what do you mean by transformation?

Adam Bennett: 16:41

Yeah, well, Mick, for me, transformation really requires three elements, it requires number one, you're sensing the world around you, and you're identifying disruption. And that might be in the form of an opportunity or a threat, but there is some kind of stimulus. And that may be very obvious. So for example, you mentioned Netflix, Reed Hastings did turn up in their boardroom, in 2001, and pitch an online streaming platform for them for 50 million bucks, they could use his idea. And the last blockbuster closed in Oregon in about 2019. And Netflix, I think last night was worth 167 billion. So he was onto something. So sometimes it turns up in your boardroom. Other times, it might be some kind of small piece of news or report that not so obvious, but your ability to sense that's really important. So that's number one. Number two is then to develop a corporate strategy in response, ie, you've seen the stimulus, and therefore you're making choices about what you will do. And those choices are around the customers and markets that you serve the products and services you provide, and might be alliances you form, it could be you're trying to build a platform like you know, the Apple App Store or some of the other platforms out there. So you will respond by developing some kind of picture or view or make some choices about what you want to be going into the future. And I think a lot of people appreciate that. And obviously, you know, that corporate strategy is really, really critical. And, or not. And but however, you know, we've all seen corporate strategies, you know, with glossy paper colored graphs, and all the best intent, unless you get to the third element, which is actually taking action, nothing happens. And that really is, for me, the three things that must be present for transformation, you there is something happening, you develop a strategy, and then you actually implement and take action to empirically change the organization.

Mick Spiers: 18:37

Alright, so we've got sensing, we've got strategy, we got action, let's unpack the second and third one a little bit more, one at a time out. And I think we've covered enough on the sensing on that strategy. How do we get it right? It could be very easy to miss read and to go, Okay, we're gonna turn left when we should have turned right. How do we make sure that our strategy is going to be sound?

Adam Bennett: 18:57

Yeah, I mean, I think well, I don't think there's any guarantee. So I don't think there's any any silver bullet that everyone can use within their organizations to make sure their strategy is flawless. But certainly, I think doing a lot of analysis around the industries, you're serving the competitive position in that industry, what's happening in that industry are all important. I think what's equally important, and sometimes forgotten, is looking very closely into your own organization, and really understanding what are you good at? And why are you successful now? And what is it about you that customers value? And there's a great question, you know, which you have Cynthia Montgomery, another Harvard professor came up and says, her question is, why does the world need your company? That's a really interesting question to ask of your own organization in terms of where, what, why, what are the competencies and unique skill sets, etc, that you have. So I think that when you start to understand all of those elements, you're on your way to developing a very good strategy where you can then think, how do I leverage all of that that fear understanding of what I'm good at what opportunities exist and start to push into that? And also, it's probably good to design your strategy. So it's not an all or nothing strategy. So sometimes that might be necessary, but how can you actually do it with confidence and assertively but equally, still incrementally that it's not a bet the entire company so that if you get it wrong, you cease to exist? So I think all of those things can can come together into a really good strategy, but I'm yet to see anything that will guarantee your success.

Mick Spiers: 20:31

Yeah. Okay. So there's no guarantees of success, but I'm liking what I'm hearing. You're almost like a corporate guy almost like rather than a personal leaker. Guy, corporate easy guy to think about, you know, what do we love doing? What are we good at? Who do we serve? How can we be rewarded? What problem do we solve? does the world need it? Yes or no?

Adam Bennett: 20:49

Yeah, I quite like that a corporate ikigai.

Mick Spiers: 20:51

Yeah, it's almost like a corporate ikigai. And how are we equipped, like, it might be the greatest idea in the world. But if it's not aligned to our strengths, we might not be equipped, we might not be the right company to bring that idea to the fore. So what do we need to do differently? If we are going to be the ones that go out and solve that problem? And to solve it better than anyone else? For example? Yeah, really interesting. Quite. So next part? Yes. I've got to say there's many companies that still do it today, it's getting better. But it's still companies that do this today, strategy is written once a year and then put back on the shelf, right doesn't mean anything, unless there's action, how do we convert strategy into action?

Adam Bennett: 21:29

Yeah, it's a great question. And this is something I've spent a lot of time both involved in thinking about. And frankly, I have been fascinated for a long time. And I think the key thing I would suggest, in terms of how do you actually implement strategies is taking a dual view of what is the mindset you need to adopt? And then what are the mechanics you need to do? And if you kind of think of that as temperament skills, or you know, mindset, mechanics, etc, you can get the tool kind of piece of that. And I think, from a mindset perspective, right off on the front foot, I'd say, you know, thinking about and leading transformation is different from leading business as usual. And by that I don't mean it's better or worse, it's just different. It's, it takes a different skill set. And sometimes in terms of transformation, you are playing with a blank sheet of paper sometimes or the strategy and you say more, how do I actually take that forward? And what are the you know, the mindsets that you need to do that, and that could be things like curiosity, you know, open mindedness, urgency, for example, or, you know, focus, you know, personal resilience, you know, maintaining a sense of humor, all of these types of things are things that are gonna be very critical to, you know, transforming an organization and taking people on a journey from where the organization is now to where it needs to be in the future. So I think there's a mindset piece, I think there's also a mechanical piece, which is, you know, what is the role of the leader, and what is the leader need to do, and number one of those, I think, would be one, they need to be personally committed and do the work. So the leader of transformation has to be out in front, in my view, leading that piece of work, and not only doing the work but being seen to do the work. The second thing is they need to choose own and communicate a clear strategy. So we've talked about strategy, they need to then communicate that in a compelling way. They need to own the decisions, both, you know, that result from that, and sometimes they're very hard decisions. And sometimes those decisions result in winners and losers. And that is a very kind of challenging part of leadership roles sometimes as you pursue a strategy that's best for the organization that may be negatively impacting an individual. And so how do you balance that out? How do you manage that and all those types of things. So I think choosing owning and communicating this trait is really important. And third, you need to build a team B transformation is a team sport, and no leader can get it done on their own. So really, the selection of the people around you their temperament, their skills, aligning them, really getting the right people is critical. And I think the fourth one is really important. And that's where I would say, knowing what levers you need to pull to actually affect change. And we spoke about some of those things around products and services to reward I would call the strategic leaders, but the operational levers are equally important. And they're the levers that you pull in order to actually change the organization. And they're things like business processes, you know, implementing new technologies, and then enabling technologies, changing organization structure and roles, you know, people and skills, culture was the culture you want to create, what are the facilities around which all this happened? Who were the suppliers and outsource providers that could be leveraged? So you know, how do you pull those levers at different times to actually affect change? So that, again, that change is demonstrably different IE, we were here and now we're here. And that takes me to the fifth one, which is using KPIs to keep score and give regular feedback on how that transformation is going.

Mick Spiers: 25:01

All right, yeah. So really interesting. So we've got the right mindset, we start with the right mindset, we get the right mechanics in place, we need the right team around us, we then need to understand which levers are actually going to have an impact, not just move the needle of an inch, but actually move the needle properly, like so what is going to be impactful and then to measure so that we know that we might have to make little adjustments. So if the needle didn't move, like we thought we're going to do we can scratch your head and we get back to our curiosity Oh, why didn't they work? Let's try this. And then we go back to mindset again. So mindset mechanics, have the team have the levers and then measure again, it really, really interesting And now, that's all well and good. Why is it so hard?

Adam Bennett: 25:42

Yeah. And it is? Well, transformation is hard. And I think everyone in business or anyone who's been involved in organizational life and transformation would probably admit that it's hard. And all the empirical evidence suggests that it's hard, like Harvard Business School suggest about 70, or 80% of transformations fail, which is a staggeringly high number, if you think about it. And I think people often accept that it's hard, but they don't always dig into why do they think it's hard. And that's something I've given a lot of thought to. And I think I would say it transformation is difficult for three reasons. So number one, is the status quo never has to argue its own case. And I remember being a little boy, kind of doing your seventh physics and learning about Isaac Newton's laws of motion, you know, a million years ago when I was at school, and his first law of motion was a body was at rest or in momentum will remain at rest or in motion until a force acts upon it. And I think that is a law that's applicable to organizations where the organization will keep doing what it's doing, until a force acts upon it. And that force is, of course, a transformation program or project. So unless something happens, the action is taken, the organization will tend just to keep going along, doing what it does add a little bit like the rings of a tree, it'll just get a bit heavier, a bit more complex each year, but fundamentally will keep doing what it's doing unless something happens. So that's the first reason number two, I think there are a whole raft of corporate elements that reinforce how the organization works. And that could be you know, its ability to sense, you know, a changing world. So if we're talking about blockbuster turned up in the boardroom, they weren't watching or listening. It could be you know, how they set their budgets and the power of last year's investments slate and carry forward of projects, it could be some unwritten assumptions in the culture of that organization. So there could be a big unwritten assumption I've seen in many organizations is never lose revenue, never lose a customer. And there are two examples of unwritten assumptions that could be very, very detrimental to that organization's long term health, where they stick with their unprofitable customers, even that, yeah, because they can't bear to not service that part of the market. We're instead of actually making the rational decision, which would be we're losing on every single product we sell to that customer. Why do we keep doing that? So it could be you know, how they move talent, it could be the culture of the organization in terms of how they respond to things. It could be, you know, I guess, this concept called Corporate relativism, where they look at every single thing in the world through the lens of how their immediate competitors look at things. And in many industries, where there's a couple of operators. Yeah, if you think of Australia, the two big retailers, two or three big telcos big four banks, very easy for someone in one of those organizations to only look through the lens of the immediate competitor and themselves and not really see the competition that might be coming. So I think there's some of the reasons of things that can make change really difficult. But the third thing I would say, the third kind of category, I think, is people, I think people want make transformation, so difficult. And I think there is a couple of corporate characters, if I could call them that make it really hard. And foremost amongst those is what I would call the loser. And now the loser is that person who will be negatively impacted by the change. And that could be they lose their empire, their personal power, or prestige, or their position within the organization of the industry. And as a result, they just can't support the change, because it's so bad for them. Yeah, there might be someone who's an autocratic, who just wants to tell everyone else what to do, there might be someone who's, you know, a traditionalist who just cannot fathom their industry working in any other way other than how it works. Now, I mean, I've been in the industry for 2030 years, they've seen it all come and go, and I just can't imagine that it's gonna be like being you know, you're in taxi driving for 30 years, you couldn't imagine it being any different. You might have the rationalist who just does was in the scorecard. So if their scorecard says go left, then no power on earth will get them to go. Right. So the good thing about that, though, is if you change their scorecard, they will in fact go right, but unless you do, they won't. So there's a couple of personalities there, where they just make change and transformation, very, very difficult for what they believe to be rational reasons.

Mick Spiers: 30:04

So what I'm hearing there three chapters there, if you like the law of inertia, and Newton is a good example of this, for sure. And I was also thinking of Einstein, when you're saying this, if you keep on doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result definition of insanity. Right, then I'm hearing an element of complacency. And that's the failure to challenge what needs to be challenged like it's sitting there. It's it's unchallenged, the unprofitable customer. The Pareto effect is 80% of your effort going into 20% of your return when it could be exactly reversed, right, and to capitalize on some of those things, and really challenge your business. and not be so complacent. And then with the people partner resistance to change there, you've hit on a really good point because a lot of people think they think losers and they think financial, they instantly think are someone's fearing losing their job, which is true, but quite often, it's loss of ego loss of identity. So if I was going to use your automotive example, back to you again, now, if I was the leading expert in this company, on the combustion engine, and the company pivots, and not going to make any more combustion engines, I'm not the leading expert in the company anymore, am I right? So my ego, and I mean ego in a nice way, right? I mean, it's my self, my sense of self, my identity, my pride is going to take a huge hit.

Adam Bennett: 31:21

Yeah, absolutely. And know what amount of insanity good example. And not only is there, that individual who's the internal combustion engine expert, but equally, that's also the person that's been rolled out to meet the graduates to role model to movement through the company, they may be in a senior position now, where they literally cannot fathom the industry working any differently. And it doesn't mean that change is not the change is impossible, it just makes it difficult. And I think it's something to be guarded against. Because as we become more senior in our roles, and our companies, etc, the very skills and experience and decision making style that we've used and been successful is why we've been entrusted with those roles. So asking someone to fundamentally rethink their industry, when they've grown up in it is very, very difficult.

Mick Spiers: 32:11

So this is where we're going to really challenge you here. There's going to be people listening to this going, yeah, we'll try it. That's exactly what happens. What called action or advice, can you give someone that's listening to this show right now, who is trying every day to implement change, because they see the world around them changing, they want to pivot the organization, they want to take their team, their company, whatever the case may be in a different direction. And they've got exactly that on the company, they've got that resistance to change from people with strong egos. And I mean, that in the nice way, not the negative way, strong egos in the company that fear the change. And we all know that the fear of loss is much more powerful than the passion towards gain for whatever reason, our brains are wired that way, we know that psychologically. What advice can you give to people that to engage those people? So they don't fear the change so much?

Adam Bennett: 33:01

Yeah, that's a really good question, I guess my answer really is dependent on where in the organization is that person. So if that person is the CEO, kind of looking down into the organization saying, Hey, we've got to change, then that's one thing. And that's where I would suggest, you know, those five mechanics I mentioned, I will stand them in good stead in terms of taking people on that journey. If they're kind of one below and sitting on the executive team, then laying out the case, and using influencing skills upwards and trying to influence their CEO to kind of understand these changes and see the world and what's happening, and then craft strategies, etc, is one thing, and then the further you get down the organization, frankly, the harder it becomes, because you can really kind of advocate for change, and try and influence the need to change. But there's that famous saying that it's very difficult to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on them, not understanding it. And that becomes a really strong barrier to change. And so again, I don't have a silver bullet in terms of what that person should do other than to kind of conscientiously and earnestly try and shift their organization. And I wonder, in fact, whether some of the organizations that don't make it or didn't make it, you know, was there some kind of junior engineer at Kodak who was, you know, here's where we got to get to, and, you know, do X, Y, and Z, and people didn't listen to them. And the result was, you know, Kodak in its previous form doesn't exist now, or blockbuster or whatever, you can rattle them off. So it's a very human issue to be dealt with. And I think all you can do is really be true to yourself, and call out what you see and what you believe to be true. And pitch that in a way in terms of the organization's need to change and keep pushing.

Mick Spiers: 34:45

And that's kind of rely on some of that resilience that you're talking about and belief.

Adam Bennett: 34:50

Yeah, I can imagine for the Zealot, you know, who sees something that others either don't see or don't want to see, that can be a very lonely position where they feel like the organization is falling on them and crushing them almost, is a very, very difficult thing. And, and oftentimes, yeah, there's, there's examples of where people like that have left their organizations set up their own organizations that have gone on to do really good things. And I imagine when Reed Hastings was kind of in the lift coming down from the boardroom of blockbuster, you know, I wonder what was in his mind, you know, between the floors, and obviously he kind of went well, right. I've gotta get at it.

Mick Spiers: 35:26

It was probably one and what's wrong with these guys? How can they not see?

Adam Bennett: 35:30

How can they not see this?

Mick Spiers: 35:31

How can they not see what I'm seeing? Yeah, one of the interesting parts on that I was just thinking about a conversation I had just the other day there. that one problem that it can be here is temporal, which is reads probably been working on that idea for months and months and months and months and months and months. And then he turns up at a boardroom for people that are hearing it for the first time. So the gestation period might be part of the problem as well, because now you've got someone who is an innovative person whose mind works at a certain pace, and has been working at that pace for several months. And now they're presenting to a group of people that are hearing it for the first time, they might eventually think it's a great idea. But right now, they're still coming to terms with it. How can the innovator work with that they're already working at a certain cracking pace. And they've advanced this thought substantially in the last, let's say, six months, but they're talking to people that are hearing it for the first time.

Adam Bennett: 36:26

Yeah, it's a really good point. I mean, personally, I'd love to see his pitch, you know, and I wonder if you can Google in effect in terms of what was Reed Hastings pitch to the board? And what was it like? Because it'd be interesting because I guess it cuts to the core of how do you communicate some of these things in compelling ways. And I think the way I would think about building a compelling case for change, and in my career, I've seen people kind of stand up and try and pitch their strategy or pitch what they want to do when they kind of they're gonna go through a 40 page PowerPoint deck. And I would recommend that almost put away the PowerPoint and actually work on how do you create a very simple narrative that describes what you're about and what you're trying to achieve. And there's a very simple structure that you can use, and I've used it successfully that cuts to the very essence of what you're trying to do, and makes it easier for that person who is only coming at this for the first time when you pitch rather than that gestation period you alluded to, and yeah, with a couple of well thought through sentences, you can kind of make the case and the structure, the sentences would be this. And you know, people could try this is because of X, Y, and Zed, ie what they're seeing the need for change, we are going to do A, B and C, I insert what you're looking to do, you know, sentences, what kind of sentences one, second Sen's insert name is going to lead a program to look at this, implemented whatever. And he's going to do this over this period, insert duration. And the last sentence is critical. We know this will be successful when a, b, and c, and actually nine, what success looks like. And that sounds like a very simple sentence structure. But it's actually really difficult to distill all of your thoughts and all of your strategy into such an elegant set of sentences. And it's a little bit like Mark Twain. In fact, when he said, Look, I wanted to write you a short letter, but I didn't have time. So here's a long letter, though, that's what happens, you know, if you standing up to present your strategy, and you got a 40, page, PowerPoint deck, or just say, take a breath

Mick Spiers: 38:30

Yeah, really good. And it's that ability to explain it in simple terms, that's when you really have mastered what you're trying to explain. And some of those things that I'm unpacking from you there, as I think about it, I'm thinking about what needs to be true for this to be true. And then once it's in true, what how will I know that it is true, right? So it's kind of it's this building of the story and the narrative really like it out of, alright, so this has been an amazing conversation, I want to bring us to a close now just share with you some of the things I'm taking away from this. So the world is changing at an ever increasing rate. And if we don't transform, we're gonna get left behind. There's absolutely no doubt about that. For transformation to happen, we need to be able to sense that we need to be able to sense what's going on in the world, we need the right strategy. But ultimately, we need to act, when we're then going into this, then this is when we need the right mindset, we need the right mechanics, we need the right team around us, we need to understand what levers are actually going to be impactful in the change that we're going to do. And we need to be able to measure to understand whether we are having the change that we want to do. And then when we get about there and get out there. We can't ignore the people with the people. Yes, we need to lead the change. But we need to bring the people with us. And we need to understand who is going to be resistant to the change so that we can bring them on the journey with us particularly that fear of loss. And how are we going to do that? This has been really amazing. Adam really loved the conversation you given us a lot to think about. I'd like to now take us to that Rapid Round. This is the same four questions that we ask all of our guests. So first of all, what's the one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you're 20?

Adam Bennett: 40:10

Great question. The one thing I wish I had known when I was 20 was how senior leaders can be fallible. So when I was 20, I just assumed everyone must be absolute geniuses, and amazingly kind of talented ethical people. And yeah, you know, when you look at corporate life or political life or societal life now you realize that all of the people in the senior roles are just human with all the failings and virtues of it. Every one so I've perhaps put all the simulators on a pedestal that was a little bit naive.

Mick Spiers: 40:44

Yep. All right. Fair enough. That's a good one to reflect. I really liked that. We are all human. We all make mistakes. And yeah. And that may be diminishes diversity of thought when we think that, you know, they've all got the answers really good. All right, next one, what's your favorite book as an author yourself? But what is your favorite book?

Adam Bennett: 41:00

Yeah, look, I think it's hard to think of a single favorite book. But certainly at different times of my life, I've had favorite books, but probably the book, what would be a book I've really enjoyed in the last couple of years would probably be actually the book on enjoy. Probably my favorite book at the moment is called die with zero. And it probably suggests what it says on the tin. I just basically suggesting that we need to live more kind of deliberate, purposeful, generous lives.

Mick Spiers: 41:27

Really interesting. Very good. What's your favorite quote?

Adam Bennett: 41:31

Actually, my favorite quote will be this one. And one must bear in mind that there is nothing so difficult to execute dubious of success, nor dangerous to administer than to introduce a new way of doing things. But he who does so has enemies of all who profit from the existing way of doing things, and only lukewarm allies in all those who may profit from the new. And that's a quote from Niccolo Machiavelli in 1532. And describing how difficult it is to change organizations, and I don't think anything has changed since then. It's very difficult.

Mick Spiers: 42:05

Yeah, it's interesting. And, you know, centuries of years ago, and yet it captures that fear of loss being greater than the appreciation of gain

Adam Bennett: 42:13

Yeah, loss aversion.

Mick Spiers: 42:14

Yeah, really interesting. All right. And finally, Adam, people are going to be really interested in what you've shared here today, they may be going through great change or trying to do great change themselves. How do they find you if they'd like to know more about you, your books and your services?

Adam Bennett: 42:29

Yeah, thanks, Mick. I mean, they can find me a couple of ways. So LinkedIn is probably an easy way. So I'm regularly posting on LinkedIn, they can find me at my website, www.greatchangeconsulting.com.au. And they're probably the best ways to get ahold of me. So be great if people reached out.

Mick Spiers: 42:48

Excellent, thank you, Adam. And we'll put those links in the show notes as well. It makes it easier for people to find them. And please do reach out to Adam, I'm sure you'll be very impressed with what he's got to offer. Thank you so much for your time today for your wisdom and your insights and for getting us to stop and reflect on what change means. And what it means if we don't change is the other key message as well.

Adam Bennett: 43:08

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Mick Spiers: 43:11

You've been listening to The Leadership Project. A quick reminder that we are now bringing you new episodes twice per week, doubling up on our mission to challenge the status quo of leadership. In the next episode, we are joined by the inspirational Robin Osborn, also known as the adversity warrior. Robin has been through incredible adversity herself and shares her story and her own journey. Robin is now an executive coach that helps organizations and individuals that have been through adversity, helping them to know when they're stuck, how to get unstuck, and how to move forward. We look forward to bringing you Robin interview in a few days time. In the meantime, do take care, look out for each other. And join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together. Thank you for listening to The Leadership Project that mickspiers.com A huge call out to Faris Sedek for his video editing of all of our video content. And to all of the team at TLP. Joan Gozon, Gerald Calibo And my amazing wife Sei Spiers, I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel where we bring you interesting videos each and every week. And you can follow us on social particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Now in the meantime, please do take care. Look out for each other and join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together.