172. Claiming Your Personal Agency with Dr. Sharon Melnick

In this transformative episode of The Leadership Project, we unlock the secrets to true empowerment in leadership with Dr. Sharon Melnick, a distinguished corporate psychologist. With groundbreaking research at Harvard Medical School and hands-on experience with over 40,000 participants, Dr. Melnick redefines the concept of power.

Key Discussion Points:

• Revolutionary Concept of Power: Dr. Melnick introduces her innovative idea of being "in your power" and contrasts it with traditional notions of power.
• Overcoming Powerlessness: Insights from her study of intergenerational issues and trauma, highlighting the prevalence of feelings of powerlessness in the workplace and providing practical strategies to reclaim one's power.
• Personal Agency and Leadership: Enrich your understanding of personal agency and enhance your leadership capabilities to overcome the challenges of learned helplessness.
• Scrutinizing Limiting Beliefs: The importance of challenging conventional advice and exploring nuanced approaches to empowerment by scrutinizing limiting beliefs and assumptions.
• Transforming Reactions: Learn how identifying and testing beliefs can transform your reactions, shifting the dynamics of power to create collaborative and win-win outcomes in both personal and professional contexts.
• Emotional Intelligence and Regulation: Gain practical tools for emotion regulation from Dr. Melnick's book, "In Your Power." Delve into the 12 power portals, focusing on techniques like vigorous exercise and the cooling breath method for managing emotions.
• Enhancing Emotional Resilience: Inspired by Regina Tomaschauer's concept of playing all 88 keys of our emotional piano, Dr. Melnick equips us with strategies for enhancing emotional resilience and navigating the complexities of human emotions.

Tune in to this episode to gain tools for personal and professional growth, and experience a paradigm shift in your approach to leadership and empowerment.

🌐 Connect with Dr. Sharon:
• For further executive coaching and speaking engagements, visit: https://sharonmelnick.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmelnick/
• Instagram: https://

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Chapters

• 0:02 Empowering Leadership Through Understanding Generations
• 12:38 [Ad] Business & Society with Senthil Nathan
• 13:26 (Cont.) Empowering Leadership Through Understanding Generations
• 14:10 Empowerment Through Taking Control of Reactions
• 26:26 [Ad] Virtual Rockstar
• 27:17 (Cont.) Empowerment Through Taking Control of Reactions
• 30:32 Breaking the Cycle of Overthinking
• 38:30 Effective Emotion Regulation in Leadership
• 50:31 Inspiring Quote and Author Introduction

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:01

Are you a thermometer, or are you the thermostat? As a leader, are you reacting to your environment, or are you setting the tone, the culture and the atmosphere? In today's episode of The Leadership Project, I'm joined by corporate psychologist, Dr. Sharon Melnick. We discuss personal agency and what it means to be In Your Power. Stay tuned to the end as Dr. Melnick shares practical tips to regain your personal agency and on emotional regulation. Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Dr. Sharon Melnick. Sharon is a corporate psychologist whose work, groundbreaking work on personal agency, is on the back of more than a decade of research at Harvard Medical School, and has been field tested with more than 40,000 participants. So we're talking about someone who's deeply researched the topic around personal agency and being In Your Power. She's also the best selling author of two books, success under stress and her new book, In Your Power. React less, regain control, raise others, and that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about this concept about being In Your Power, and the difference about that and being in power, and this kind of power struggle that people have in their own minds, etc, so that you can take control of your leadership. I'm really excited to go deeply into this content today and in the into this topic, and I know that we're all going to learn a lot. So without any further do. Sharon, I'd love it if you'd give us a little bit of a flavor of your long term background and what inspired you to do such deep work on this topic?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 2:03

I'm so delighted to be here with you, Mick. Well, I guess you could say that it started when I was doing research at Harvard Medical School and for 10 years on intergenerational issues. So it's really everyone can relate to this kind of you know what you bring with you from your own experiences in childhood into your parenting in the next generation. Or, I guess we could even say in your work interactions when you are an adult. And the research that I did helps to understand like, if you've had difficult experiences, how can you break those intergenerational cycles? Like, how can you not repeat those mistakes within your own family or the ways that you interact with other people? And from doing that research, I came to understand a few things. One was about trauma. And you know, we we have lots of ways of using that word these days, and but it's, it's, you know, when you're in situations where it's kind of uncontrollable or inescapable and there's some kind of a threat or harm to your emotional well being or your physical well being, and when that's The case, you have to adapt, you have to cope, you have to do something to deal with those situations. And so I came to understand some of the adaptations and the coping patterns that people do, and then I was able to help parents who had had those difficult childhoods to kind of, you know, avoid those intergenerational cycles. And the reason that I take us back there is that I actually think that it's relevant to the workplace these days, because at the heart of the experience of trauma is an a feeling, an experience of powerlessness, where you can't kind of protect your own welfare, you can't necessarily, kind of have a voice or prevent physical harm or whatever it is. And we can think about that in terms of like, you know, people who are, you know, at war, or people who have a car accident and people who have been, you know, physically in abusive situations, and that's for sure, the case. But I think broadly speaking, a lot of us feel powerless today. You know, we feel like the world is not going the way that we think it should in some way, and it's almost like no matter who you are, you might experience this, this kind of situation. So I'm like, when I talk to senior leaders, they're like, just can't get the young people, you know? Know, to kind of, you know, kind of go along with the culture that we are, you know, trying to create. And if you talk to a talented woman, she might say, just can't get my boss to kind of see me for my talents, and I feel overlooked, and I feel dismissed. Or you might have a mid level or even a senior executive, and I just can't get my colleague to stop invading my turf or not responding to me, or whatever it is. And I think these days, and you know, whether it's personally as well, you know, in our life, I just feel like a lot of people feel like I just can't get people to kind of do what I need or live up to my expectation that, you know, there's a lot of polarization, and people are just kind of reacting, you know, and we're emotional about it, and we're just like, It just shouldn't be this way. And so this, you know, it's, it's not like I set out, you know, all those decades ago in my career. But, you know, from having an understanding of what goes on in those moments and how you have to cope, it set the stage for me to have an understanding of the way that I think people feel powerless today, even though I don't think we put that word on it, I think we just, you know, kind of say, well, there's like challenges, you know, in the workplace, and it's just hard and complex and all these things. But I think I, you know, got an understanding of what's going on in those moments, and actually that you have way more power than you think you do, no matter who you are in those moments. And I, I have a feeling that's what we're going to unpack here today.

Mick Spiers: 6:46

All right, that's really good. Sharon, there's actually at least four things I want to unpack already from what you're saying.

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 6:51

Okay, we'll bring it on.

Mick Spiers: 6:52

Yeah, this is going to be a wonderful conversation. So the four things I'm picking up so far is intergenerational, and that's the first one I want to go through. I want to talk about this, this feeling of powerlessness or almost learned helplessness. I want to talk about this word trauma, because I think there's going to be some people that have already painted a picture in the head as to what they that meant for them, and then the there's also the gender specific thing that you brought up there. I want to come back to that later. Let's go with intergenerational want to throw one at you, or it's the one a lot of people talk about millennials, right? So millennials, you said it the senior executive. Oh, what's wrong with the young generation? They just don't take responsibility. Or, you know, fill in any kind of sentence there as to some of the things people say, and yet, millennials themselves feel very misunderstood, unheard, that they don't feel their own agency when they arrive. They're lost. They're feeling all kinds of things. How do we break this cycle where we've got generations that really just don't understand each other?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 8:02

Yeah, well, whether it's on, you know, just a person to person, or kind of groups to groups, or generations to generations, I think what we see a lot in the world today is that people just kind of react from their point of view, from within their worldview, from what they understand and you know, and we kind of make the other person wrong, you know, and I don't think that that's helping us move forward towards greater collaboration. So I think you want to approach these situations like with deep empathy, and you want to really understand kind of where that other person, where that generation, is coming from, and kind of, you know, how they've developed the values that they have, what's important within their worldview, what are they trying to accomplish? And I think that that's, that's just like the basis, you know, each individual has to do that. And I think we can kind of get stuck in things should be my way, or the ways that I've learned them. And I think you really have to kind of take your own head off, and you have to see it from the other person's point of view, and almost try to almost try to make them right, you know. And when that's your stance, then you really understand a lot more of where they're coming from, and then you can align with them, and then you can give give them assignments or incentives from within, what's actually in it for them, what actually motivates them. And I just think that we're already on a better playing field once you come from that approach.

Mick Spiers: 9:41

And I feel like that needs to be bi directional, but yes, a little bit of deep empathy. Yep, cognitive, emotional empathy, little bit of empathic concern, even perhaps with what that person's going through, and understanding what is driving them. And from my experience. Is like, I'll use one example, senior executives that are saying, Oh, the millennials, they all want to be the CEO tomorrow. They're always in a rush. They want to be promoted ahead of their experience, etc, etc. But from the millennials perspective, all they're after is opportunities to learn and grow. They don't really want to be the CEO tomorrow, but what motivates them is to come to a workplace where they're going to learn something new every day. And if we don't take the time to understand that and to listen to them, we're missing the point where almost we're almost making assumptions about their behaviors without testing and being curious about, oh, that's really interesting. What? What is it about that that interests you? That's the bit that's missing the curiosity. How does that sit with you?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 10:50

Yeah, I think that totally aligns with with what I'm trying to say. And I think, like, how can you find them, right? You mean, okay, so you know, how can I provide more learning experiences for you then, you know, and again, and that goes both ways, but I just think you know that. You know we're we're not taught. We're taught a lot of things along the way in terms of our knowledge, but I don't think we're taught this basic skill of kind of take your own head off and really see it from the other person's point of view, and and, and make them right in what it is that they want, so that you can give them more of what they want, because then they're going to give you their best.

Mick Spiers: 11:29

Yeah, good. All right, fantastic. I want to go on to the second one now, which is this word trauma, and I want to share with you what was popping into my head when you're talking and then let's see where that takes us. So the word trauma is, that's a big word. If you think, like, capital T, trauma, you know, lost a parent as a child, or I was abused, or, like, it could be very, very, very serious, but I was thinking when you're talking that it can also be a whole bunch of almost micro traumas or conditioning, right? So if your parents had a certain view in the of the world around either politics, religion or even their relationship with money, there's this micro conditioning of how you might have a relationship with money when you grow up. So what I'm trying to unpack here is the word trauma doesn't have to be capital T, trauma, something very traumatic. One incident happened in my life. It could be just a building up of events that lead up to the person that you become, or the person that you think you are, and the way that you see the world. How does that sit with you?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 13:17

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So yeah, and I'm not, and I'm not meaning to say that, like the workplaces, you know, traumatic, even though I think some people actually would say that they experience that, but that that's really not the point that I'm making. I think we do sometimes make a distinction between kind of the capital T trauma, you know, where there's circumscribed events, or pattern of events. And then what I was more meaning to say is that I think that there is a dynamic at the center of difficult experiences, traumatic experiences and and the dynamic is one in which you feel like you don't have power, right, or you feel powerless. And I think that a lot of people experience that these days in ways that are, you know, relevant to their own lives. And so for that reason, I think I just got an understanding from that initial research that I think goes beyond, you know, there's like, a lot of encouragement out there, like, you know, like, speak up girlfriend, you know what I mean, or whatever. Like, yes, like, definitely speak up. You know, if you're a woman or just, you know, there's just sort of a hand waving, kind of, like an easy, you know, kind of advice that would be out there for leaders, and I think that that doesn't really take into account what is going on in those situations where it's it's really a dynamic where a person doesn't feel that they have power, and that my message is, is that actually, you always have more power than you think, no matter what your involvement is in a situation. And I think when we think about it from that perspective, it gives people a way, a route out, or gives them a whole repertoire of strategies to do, as opposed to just feeling done to or my colleagues doing this, I feel stuck. Or, you know, my CEO is doing this, I feel stuck, or my team member is acting this way. It's just a headache for me, and I just, and I just take it home with me, and I ruminate on it, and it's bringing me down. So I. I just think that an understanding of what goes on in those moments where we have an emotional react, reaction, we have a way of protecting ourselves. We have that we have a lot of opportunities there, but I think many of us just immediately go to a place where we get out of our power, because I think we're not really taught ways of staying in our power in those moments.

Mick Spiers: 16:14

There's two things that I'm picking up there that are related Sharon, and I want to test that with you as well. And then I want to get deeper into this topic of In Your Power. What I'm picking up here is the word unresolved or untested, whatever the case may be, and two different types. One is, you spoke about taking action, right? So people say, Oh, you just need to step up, and you need to find your voice, and all of these very action oriented words, which I think are powerful, and if we don't step out of our comfort zone, we'll we'll never progress, and we'll never change. So there's a there's an element of that that rings true, but what I'm picking up there is, if we don't pick up the limiting belief, or address and test the limiting belief that was stopping us from speaking up in the first place it it may not be fully long standing. That was the first one. And then the second one was testing assumptions that we make about someone else. So if you're sitting there complaining about the Oh, the CEO never lets me talk, or the CEO does this, or the you know, you're making an assumption about that other person that you may not have tested. So that's right. One is testing your own beliefs. Are they true? What is holding you back and resolving it properly? And second is testing assumptions that we make about other people's behavior. How does that sit with you? Those two?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 17:41

I think, I think those are absolutely right. And, you know, I think when we react, you know, then usually we are reacting because of a story that we're telling about the situation that is very much from our subjective point of view, where as you're saying, not having not tested it out or not maybe looking at the situation more objectively. And really, one of the main reasons why I wrote the book In Your Power is because I saw with my executive coaching clients, and you know, many, many people in my trainings when I was talking with them about success under stress and or just being effective and high performing, that the situations that really cause someone, a leader, to not be at their best, or the kind of situation that they would bring home with them, you know, over and over again, it wasn't over, you know, like a kind of a spreadsheet or a cost balancing issue, or, you know, something like that. It was really these situations where they felt out of their power, you know, and and what happens when you're out of your power, the way that you try to make a situation better usually makes it worse, or at least doesn't make it better, but then, by definition, it makes it worse, because it just perpetuates it, and then you're more entrenched in blaming or resenting the other person, or thinking that, you know, feeling defeated, that it's never going to change, or, you know, just kind of losing Hope in the situation, and everyone's just sort of more, you know, dug in, in terms of how they're going to handle it. And then you start to spin, should I stay? Should I go? Can I bring my value here or not? Are they ever going to change or not? You know, and all of this just very, very unconstructive energy. So the high level, why I wrote the book is because when you're not In Your Power, the way that you try to make the situation better usually makes it worse. If you think about situations that you have in your life that are kind of, you know, just you're kind of carrying with you, and are spinning and you're stuck, and they're not getting better. But the moment that you step into your power, you shift the power dynamic, and you will see solutions. You will you will be able to make an impact and come up with Win Win solutions and kind of make it better for you and make it better for everyone else around you. And every leader wants that. Every parent wants that, every family member wants that, every team member wants that. And it's a skill, and you can learn it.

Mick Spiers: 20:25

So there are some really powerful things coming through here, Sharon. The first thing, I want to pick up for the audience and just think about this. As you're listening to this, whether you're on the tram or driving your car, whatever you're doing right now, think about that situation that Sharon's talking about. When we're in this reactionary mode, our well-intentioned actions may indeed be exacerbating or prolonging the situation rather than making it better, so keep that in mind. Now, sharon, I want to come to some of these base definitions that you're talking about. So we spoke very early in the introduction about the difference between being in power versus in your power. I want to know more about this, and you've brought up the words being out of your power a few times now as well, so can you give us a base architecture of what we're talking about here, about the difference between being in power and in your power, and what happens when you're not in your power?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 21:21

Yeah, really good question. So I think that when we think about this word power, it has all kinds of connotations, right, and most of them are negative, right, you know, we think of it as being forceful or manipulative or selfish or any of these kinds of things. But that's only the case when someone is in power but not in their power. So in power is when you are in a position, right, when you have positional power, you are a leader, you have command over certain resources or the power to hire and fire or to create the culture, or you're a parent or in some guardian position with someone else or whatever. You have power, right, and that's the way that we think about it. But what I'm talking about here is being in your power, which is it comes from the Latin root passe, which means to be able. So in your power is to be able to be able to stay good in you, to be able to have an intention of who you want to be, how you want to show up in the situation, and have the mindsets and the skills to be able to be that person in the moment. Because when you are in your power, then you can use your power for good, for the good of all, but if you are not in your power. When you're out of your power I'm assuming we could all kind of relate to this where you're in the mental swirl right and you keep churning on a situation inside your own mind or you get emotionally hijacked and you're in an emotional state and when you're there you know it feels like the other person kind of is the one who's driving the outcome, not so much you. And the best way to just get this immediately is through an analogy, which is that when you're out of your power, you go through your day like the thermometer. When you're a thermometer, your mental and emotional state is kind of going up and down. It feels like other people act and you just react. You're more the casualty than the creator of your circumstances or the outcome. And when you're the thermometer and you're out of your power, what you want to do is you want to shift to being the thermostat. When you're the thermostat, you set the tone, you decide who you will be. You respond with intention, not react with emotion, like you have ideas of how this situation could be better and you bring everyone else along, because the thermostat it takes into account all of the elements in the situation the airflow, the temperature, the motion of the people, you know and it says, uh, we're going to set the temperature to 70 degrees. You know what I mean. And I'm going to balance all the elements in the situation, harmonize them, and we're going to come out at 70 and I'm going to constantly monitor. And that's what I think the best outcome is here. And you can be the thermostat and you have so much power to do that. If only you weren't looking at the situation from your subjective point of view, making other people wrong. You know what I mean, kind of being in that reactive state where you can't see and understand it objectively and everyone wants to be around a leader who's a thermostat.

Mick Spiers: 25:09

I'm loving the metaphor of the thermometer versus thermostat. It's really powerful. And then I'm thinking things that are coming into my mind. When you're talking a difference almost between a victim mindset versus a creator mindset and coming home from work and we spoke about this you, you know, talking to your family going you're not going to believe what happened to me at work today, right, as opposed to, oh, guess what I did at work today, right? So so is work happening to you, or are you the one driving and and orchestrating, or are you in control, or are you the reactor to external stimulus is the key?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 26:32

And I, yeah. I think that's absolutely right and, uh, I think that's what makes a leader, because these kind of situations are happening, you know, just dozens of times a week, you know and and a leader who appreciates and realizes the power that they have to set the tone right is a leader who becomes legendary.

Mick Spiers: 26:59

Now you've mentioned a few times people underestimate their power. Tell me more about that?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 27:05

Well, I think when you are in an interaction, or there's just some, you know, immovable situation in your workplace, like we've given all examples of, right, the way that we're set up as humans, our brain wiring is set up to focus on what it is that we can't control, right? So we're going to be literally, kind of like tracking what are the elements in the situation that we can't control, and immediately our attention is going to go onto those. That's our factory settings, unless we override it. And so you want to instead know that you know, and you want to really focus your attention on what it is that you can control. So I'd encourage everyone who's listening to us right now to even think of a challenge, a challenging situation that you have in your life. And I want you to sort out two things kind of make if you could put a line down the middle of like a page or something, and what are the aspects of the situation that you can control. I call that your 50% what you bring to it, what you can control, and differentiate that from the other aspects of the situation that you can't control, the other 50% any moment that you focus your attention on what you can't control, you leak your power, literally all of your ability, to do anything to make this situation better, just right? And and then all of your attention and focus is going to be on. Why are they doing that? They should be doing that. It should be different. This is inconvenient for me, or, you know, whatever the thing is, and you have no agency in the situation. So that's why the first thing that you want to do in any situation is, you know, be impeccable for your 50% take 100% responsibility for everything that goes on within your 50% be effective there. When you are effective there, you can go so far to making this situation better that even if there's some aspects to the situation that really, like, really you can't control, you will feel such a sense of detachment from because the rest of it is just, you know, feels like it's going so much more your way.

Mick Spiers: 29:32

So, what I'm hearing here is really focusing down on what is in our control and being aware of what's not in our control and being mindful and intentional about are we reacting to the things that are not in our control, ie, the behavior of other human beings, or are we responding to the things that are in our control? What are our levers? What what levers are in our hands right now? And are we responding with the things that are in our control or or is our entire day spent in reactionary mode on things that were not in our control? In any case, now, very powerful stuff, Sharon, but you mentioned this earlier. We are emotional creatures, so it's easier said than done. If someone's listening to this right now, going, OMG, I do exactly that. I do exactly what this Sharon's talking about. I spend my whole time in my head worrying about what other people said or worrying about what other people did. I don't spend enough time worrying about what I'm doing. If someone falls into that trap every single day, how do they break the cycle?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 30:40

The very first thing that you could do is to kind of hold yourself accountable to the exercise, the kind of thought experiment that we were just talking about, in any situation. You know, are you being impeccable for your 50% in the situation? So I would just make that a kind of a question that you're asking yourself all day long. Or an alternative way of asking that question is, where's my power? Where's my power in this situation? Another thing that you could do is that you want to be aware of how you are react. Acting as you're saying in the situation. And very often I hear from leaders, whether they're describing themselves admittedly, or whether they're talking about someone else, like on their teams, is I take things personally, right? Or at least the way they're describing a situation has a high level of inference about it, they did this, you know, they, you know, you know, they reallocated my resources, or they, they're, you know, stepping on my turf. Or, you know, they, you know, they're resistant, or whatever the kinds of things it is that they're saying. And I want to encourage all of you to appreciate that that's really more subjective than objective, that that's so you can always sort out, what are the facts of the situation, and then kind of, what are you making of the facts in the situation? Or, even more importantly, what are you making it mean about you in the situation? And that's something that I hear all day long, and you want to really be more objective about the stories that you tell, because that's where all of your problem solving is going to come from. When you really understand a lot more about what's going on for the other person, or what broke down, you know, in communication in the situation, as opposed to immediately going to, you know, they dismissed me, or, you know, whatever, whatever it is that you're, you know, they don't listen to me, or whatever you You've just lost all your power in the situation, and you're going to continue to blame that person. You're not going to see any opportunity, and you're going to go down a rabbit hole you're going to end up leaving when all you had to do, you know what I mean was really have a kind of, more of a 3d perspective, see the situation, more of the for the hologram that it is. You know, what are you bringing to it? What are they bringing to it? What are the contextual factors that we can understand here? And that's where all the fodder for new solutions are.

Mick Spiers: 33:30

Okay, let me share what I'm taking away from that. I want to make sure that I'm getting it pretty clearly. Sharon, so the thing I'm picking up is around the meaning and significance that we apply in our own mind to some certain event. We'll talk about that one, about the reallocation of resources. I think that's a that's a pretty powerful one. So do we know what we're interpreting to be true? So is, it correct, the meaning

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 34:00

They stole my budget, or what you know, whatever,

Mick Spiers: 34:03

Right. So, do we know that to be true? And then we might start second guessing their intentions. Oh, they only did that because, and if you're making those statements, well, have you tested that? Do you know that to be true? Do you know your interpretation of their intention to be true. And then significance, for me is the gradient is you're catastrophizing this when it might have been a minor event in the scheme of things, but to you it was a major event. So so meaning is understanding what actually did happen objectively, rather than subjectively. And then significance is on a scale of meaningless to the worst thing that's ever happened to you in your life, where you're putting it on a catastrophization kind of scale and testing whether that to be true, right? So this is the interpretation phase. And then the next thing I'm hearing from you Sharon is then the curiosity to go and actually ask some questions and go and see that person. So what's going on with the resources? What's going on with the budget? Asking more questions, rather than the reaction would be to just blast back at them and go, What did you do with my or feeling helplessness and doing nothing, or blasting back at them and going, what did you do with my budget? Or whereas, if we stay curious and go and say, What's going on here, and is there something deeper here, we might end up with a better response. Is that what I'm am I taking away the right thing?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 35:35

That's absolutely right. And you know, what we have to appreciate, Mick, is that we're so set up to do this as humans. Is that, you know that we filter in through information, through kind of the emotional centers of our brain, right? And the those emotional centers have a question associated with it, and that question is, what does it mean about me, or what's the implication for me in mind, right? So again, those are our factory settings as humans, and so we are set up to have a kind of a personalized view of a situation, and that. That initial story that we tell, it's usually a gut story. It's unfiltered. And when you just dig down a little bit and you know, what are you making that mean about you? Usually, if I ask a leader, it'll be something like, well, they're not respecting me. They don't think I'm doing a good job. And, you know, you just keep asking, What does that mean about you? Well, I don't think I'm good enough, you know, in my role. So really, what was causing the overreaction was not that the person did whatever that they did, but it was some personalized reaction of what you made it mean, or else it's that you feel out of control, you know, with that person. And so that's really what's causing that, that overreaction. And just like you said, if we could, you know, kind of require ourselves to tell alternative stories about it being more objective and having that 3d perspective, then we would really understand a lot more about what were the pressures that they were under what what understanding did they have of how we did the budget? What did I communicate or not communicate that I could have? You know, all of these more objective ways of understanding about the situation. That's where all the solutions are. But if you just stay stuck and like, I got this situation all wrapped up, that person's a turf monger, or I'm not good enough at my job, and then it's like, you know, that's what you go home at the end of

Mick Spiers: 37:43

So, so I'm hearing a lot here about almost having a the day with. challenge to my own identity at this point, right? So about the story that I tell myself about myself in my head, and what does this event Tell me about that? Does it confirm a negative view. Does it challenge a positive view? Really interesting. So is your response? Sorry, your reaction? Is your reaction more about yourself at this point rather than about the other person?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 38:13

Yeah, it's so important. I think this is really one of the most important skills, because these kinds of situations are happening, you know, just all day long, professionally and personally, and you have so much power in those situations to make them go more smoothly with more collaboration. You know, better win, win innovative solutions or keeping the relationship strong and in a good, open communication, communicating love and care for one another. You have so much power in those situations to make them go that way, but if we don't know that, then we just react right? And then every everyone is sort of basing the downstream effects of that reactivity, and it was one of the main reasons why I wrote the book, was to share skills for people to be aware about this. And there's a whole chapter in the book with very specific exercises you know about how you be more aware in those book, in those situations, and the book In Your Power it's organized according to what I call power portals. So there's 12 power portals. So these are 12 different ways that kind of lenses, or, you know, ways of looking at any situation that when you when you kind of enter this portal, it's like a whole new way of understanding it, with a whole new set of skills and and ways of having power and being able to use your power in that situation. And there's one of the of the portals, that is the portal of psyche. They're all p words, and one is, one is about purpose, and one is about your position, and one is about persuasion, and one is about managing your physiology, and all this so, and this is the portal of psyche. It's these subconscious kind of associations that you have that are the things that are kind of really determining what's going on for you in those moments. And you have more power than you think to respond with intention and not react with emotion. Yeah. And I also want to say, actually, nothing wrong with emotion. This is, please ask me something about this, because I have a high horse I want to step onto right now about emotion in the workplace.

Mick Spiers: 40:37

All right, let's, let's unpack it. We are emotional creatures, and yet we, I think often we get told that we should suppress emotion which is not necessarily healthy. So tell me your view, Sharon.

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 40:51

Yes. Love this coming from you, Mick. Thank you. I think that's right. I think that kind of the emotion gets sucked out of the workplace and and it's suppressed, but there's a lot of you know, anytime you're interacting with other human beings, especially about goals that are meaningful for you, you know, and that you care about your customers, clients, patients, etc, then I think it's, it's not healthy. The way that we think about it. And so again, in the portal of physiology, in the book that I go deep into a whole set of strategies about how to handle emotions, I think people feel uncomfortable. I think we're and here's, I do think that there's a gender dynamic here. I think that it's a generalization, but I think generally speaking, men are sanctioned only to show anger. You know that that's the only kind of emotion that they're able to show, even though it's not the only thing that they feel, because they're human. And I think women are sanctioned against showing anger and and they're more encouraged only to show more passive emotions, like, let's say, you know, kind of sadness or helplessness. And I don't think that this is serving anyone. And I'm a fan of the strategic display of emotion. I think when you're passionate about something, I think it's I think that emotions are energizing. They're inspiring. For people, I think it's, you know, good to be able to show that you have passion around something. But I just think that we need to have way better ways of communicating around emotion, and I and I think that people need way better abilities to handle emotion. There's lots of things that aren't appropriate to share in the workplace, because it's raw, it's unprocessed, it's not targeted, it's not even based on probably the reality of the situation. And I think it's really important for people to kind of move it through and go smack some golf balls, go do a Zumba class. Go chop some wood. Go smash pillows, you know, go, you know, go, go into the woods and scream. Or, you know, whatever it is there's wrecking rooms, you know. I mean, whatever. I'm just giving some, you know, fun examples for me, I go to, I go to the boxing bag. I do vigorous exercise. And, you know, when I'm angry and frustrated, I get it out, and then I'm able to come back to the situation, and I'm able to reconnect with my mental clarity and have that, you know, 3d picture perspective, and then I'm able to deal in a way that is, you know, is effective, and that takes everyone into consideration. And I'm able to be the thermostat, and I encourage everyone to do it. And there's also, there's a whole suite of of solutions that you can have for your emotions. I'll give one here, which is cooling breath. Cooling breath is a breathing technique that you can use to cool down your physiology. When you notice you're getting you're getting worked up and you're getting heated. So cooling breath is a reverse breath. Could do it along with me. Now you're going to open your mouth ever so slight. You'll leave you'll breathe in as if you're sipping through a straw. Breathe out through your nose, long, slow, deep breath, and keep doing it. As I'm talking, what you're doing is that you are literally, kind of cooling down your physiology. The breath goes right to your organs, rather than going being filtered through, you know, the cilia in your nose. And my acupuncturist friends tell me that it connects, you know, the meridian, to the liver, which is where negative emotion can build up in your system and cause disease, potentially over time. So cooling breath takes you out of emotional hijack, puts you back into your frontal lobe, the part of your mind that can kind of respond with intention. And cooling breath has a secret ninja weapon aspect to it, which is really cool, is that not only will it calm you down, but it will calm down the other people in the situation. So this is a great example of don't expect other people to change. Don't tell them to calm down. Calm yourself down, and in so doing, be the one like be impeccable for your 50% and you'll be the thermostat.

Mick Spiers: 45:19

Telling someone else to cool down. That That always works, doesn't it? As it comes back to what you said before, well intentioned actions, making it worse, instead of, instead of making it better. Love this cooling breath. This is a great takeaway for for everyone, and this word emotional hijack, and it's a it's a nice way to cap what we've been talking about. Are we reacting to our emotion emotions, or are we responding to our emotions? And we ignore our emotions and the emotion of others at our at our peril. So we are emotional creatures, like it or not, and if you ignore those emotions, it's at your peril. And what Sharon's talking about here is some regulation of emotion, so using your the cooling breath. I absolutely love it, noticing and naming those emotions. What is this emotion? Why this emotion? Why this emotion? Now? What is this emotion trying to tell me and then responding, not just the instant reaction to the emotion, which, in more cases than not, is going to make. The situation worse. How does that sit with you, Sharon?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 46:23

I think that's absolutely right, and I think that we want to work with our emotions, because inspirational leaders are connected to their emotions. They leverage and use emotion to inspire and mobilize and energize other people. You know, nobody was really in, you know, inspired to, like, put a man on the moon kind of thing by, you know, giving some sort of dry, you know, kind of statistical direction of what it is that they're supposed to do. It was, it was a higher aspiration, right? So I think that, rather than being stripped out of the workplace, I think it would be effective for us to know how to work with our emotions, constructively and and it's part of where our power is, it's and being able to move our emotions through, to come back to mental clarity and to have a constructive understanding of the situation. This is what allows a leader to see new solutions and move people forward where they've been stuck before.

Mick Spiers: 47:30

All right, Sharon, there's been so many wonderful takeaways today for people start thinking about this. Are you reacting or are you responding, both emotionally and all of those things around you, the stimulus that are happening to you in the workplace. Are you reacting or are you responding? Are you In Your Power? Don't underestimate your power and start focusing on the things that you can control. There's so many powerful messages you might need to listen to Sharon a few times to get the full depth of what she's sharing with us today. Sharon, I'd now like to take us to our Rapid Round. These are the same four questions that we ask all of our guests. First,

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 48:10

Bring it on.

Mick Spiers: 48:11

What's the one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 48:13

Oh, Mick. It's that I have more power than I think that I do, that's for sure. And you know, what's so interesting is that there was a study done by Ron Carucci, one of my fellow Marshall Goldsmith's top 100 coaches, studying executives coming into power, and he found that the number one abuse of executives coming into power was not what we think it is, but rather not using the power that they had.

Mick Spiers: 48:39

There we go.

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 48:40

If they're in their power, of course.

Mick Spiers: 48:41

Very powerful. What is your favorite book?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 48:46

You know, I love a book by Benjamin Hardy called Be Your Future Self Now. And it's all about like describing that intention of who you want to be, and then, you know, kind of making your thoughts and your actions in the service of it, sooner rather than later.

Mick Spiers: 49:03

Love it. I love the title. Straight away, I'm going to look into that book that sounds very, very informative. I love it. What's your favorite quote?

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 49:12

You know, along these lines of what we've been talking about, I have a mentor whose name is Regina thomashauer. She's kind of a feminist icon, and she has a quote which says, you know, as human beings, we want to play all 88 keys of our emotional piano. And it's, it's very much can you know, has inspired what it is that we're talking about today. And so, you know, have access to all 88 keys of our emotional piano.

Mick Spiers: 49:42

Yeah, love it. Okay, and finally, there's going to be people that are blown away by what you're sharing today. Sharon, how do people find you learn more about your walk, your work, either you know, your your deep research, or your books, or your speaking, all of the things that you do.

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 50:00

Thank you so much. I'd be delighted to hear from you. So to get the book In Your Power, I mean, probably any any ways that you get your books these days, Amazon, online or in bookstores, and there are specific resources for dealing with your emotion and navigating some of these thorny situations in your power and you can find those at inyourpowerbook.com. Also, you know, for anyone who's interested in executive coaching or for speaking and on these topics, I'd love for you to find me at sharonmelnick.com, sharonmelnick.com,

Mick Spiers: 50:44

All right, brilliant. Dr. Sharon Melnick, thank you so much for your time today and sharing with us your wonderful insights and wisdom. I feel richer for having this conversation, and I know that our audience will as well.

Dr. Sharon Melnick: 50:55

Thank you so much, Mick

Mick Spiers: 50:57

You've been listening to The Leadership Project. Many great takeaways there from the interview with Dr. Sharon Melnick. As a reminder, don't forget that we now are live streaming again with The Leadership Project live. So please do subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel so you can be notified of all. Our future live streams. We live stream out to LinkedIn, YouTube and Facebook every week. In the next episode of The Leadership Project podcast, I'll be joined by Paul Butterfield, where we discuss enabling high performance teams through empowerment and trust. Thank you for listening to The Leadership Project mickspiers.com a huge call out to Faris Sedek for his video editing of all of our video content and to all of the team at TLP. Joan Gozon, Gerald Calibo and my amazing wife Sei Spiers, I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel, where we bring you interesting videos each and every week, and you can follow us on social, particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Now, in the meantime, please do take care, look out for each other and join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together.